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Forums - [Discussion] Better way to handle usage note validation

Top > renshuu.org > Feature Requests/Improvements

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Jules.33
Level: 37

You might find that if people are getting too many notifications of rejected submissions, that they just decide to make all of their mnemonics private. I think people share, because they like to help other people, and they appreciate when others have helped them, but there’s no real need to make them public. If it becomes too much of a bother, I think people will just think “Screw it, I’ll keep my brilliant ideas to myself.”

2
4 months ago
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Tsuta13
Level: 407

I don’t find those comment choices to be very clear. First, as a new user, I don’t know anything about dictionary binding. So instructions would need to be included in the notification. I don’t like the use of “wrong” in the wording, because that’s going to discourage people from participating. Perhaps something like, “Please select a different note type.” Wrong language is too general.

Wrong language means, the user wrote a mnemonic (for the standard english use of this app) in literally the wrong (not english) language. I agree that all these options need a explanation along with them.

I actually also don't know anything about dictionary binding...

And I agree with Lunastoria about the "bad grammar" tag. Could also be "bad grammar/spelling"

1
4 months ago
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Wrong language means the note doesn’t match its language tag. So if it’s written in Tagalog (not picking on anyone, it’s just the first language that comes to mind) but tagged German, that would be a reason to reject with comments.

2
4 months ago
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マイコー
Level: 291

Sorry for the ambiguity: those aren't meant to be the actual text the user would receive, but rather, the selection for someone using this verification tool. The actual messages that go back works be descriptive and informative as to how to fix the issue :)

5
4 months ago
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Lunastoria
Level: 441

Wrong language is too general. Is there a misspelling in the Japanese? A misspelling in the English? Did the user misread the pronunciation of the word? Does the wording just need to be clearer? I don’t know what “wrong language” people found when they completed the trial, but this sounds vague to me.

I think wrong language means just that. Using French instead of English for example.

1
4 months ago
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マイコー
Level: 291

Now that I'm on the computer, let me give a better example:

1. User on validation tool selects "Not in English" (or whatever language they are reviewing in.)

2. Mnemonic author receives the following message:

"Thanks for the recent mnemonic (shown below)! It looks like it could help others, but the language you selected does not match what you typed in. Please tap the link below to adjust this for your mnemonic. We hope others can enjoy your mnemonic soon"

One more example

1. Validator selects "Note type (not mnemonic)

2. Author gets:

"Thanks for the recent mnemonic (shown below)! It looks like it could help others, but you marked it as a mnemonic. It would probably be better as a different marker (Meaning, How to Use, or Other) to help others find it. (instructions to change it)"

11
4 months ago
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Slipperybeluga
Level: 554

Your proposal sounds solid to me. Let people who want them screen them for you. If the discord is any indication, the community is pretty healthy and responsible and is capable of self policing something minor like that. FWIW, I have turned off mnemonics as it's just noise to me.

If you're falling behind on reviewing usage notes, I'd much rather have your expertise and time spent on verifying the 'how to use' and 'meaning' submissions.thanks.png

3
4 months ago
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マイコー
Level: 291

I'll probably be able to return to refining this in the first week of the new year. I've been doing some of the submissions myself lately (they fit in nicely while I'm waiting for something else in a little hobby app that I'm working on), so the backlog is not as bad as it used to be.

8
4 months ago
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pup72
Level: 717

I almost always love reading the mnemonics. The ones I appreciate the most are the ones that attempt to explain the etymology of a kanji. Some mnemonics are so smart, I often wonder about the author. I actually think there should be a little profile of the authors of super popular mnemonics in a Renshuu hall of fame. Also maybe the mnemonics that don't get much love after a while could expire or become private so the dumb ones don't pile up.

3
4 months ago
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Tsuta13
Level: 407

Also maybe the mnemonics that don't get much love after a while could expire or become private so the dumb ones don't pile up.

I feel like this would be bad for mnemonics for words that don't get studied by many. They already seldom have even one.

3
4 months ago
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Level: 634

I agree, hiding mnemonics with little to no attention is not a good idea. I have found many useful mnemonics on obscure terms.

3
4 months ago
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モニカ7
Level: 1161

I keep meaning to go back and view some more mnemonics to help with the backlog but I can't remember which page the link is on and I've been too busy (or maybe just a little bit lazy) so I haven't gone back to search for it. Is it possible to pin that bit to the top of page 1 or something to make it easier to find? I'll do some more in my free time if I can find it. kao_heart.png Thank you!

0
4 months ago
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Not sure if the layout lines up the same way on both platforms, but on mobile, it's the 3rd message on page 3. Just fyi until it gets pinned to the beginning, if it does.

2
4 months ago
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モニカ7
Level: 1161

Not sure if the layout lines up the same way on both platforms, but on mobile, it's the 3rd message on page 3. Just fyi until it gets pinned to the beginning, if it does.

Thank you! kao_great.png

1
4 months ago
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マイコー
Level: 291

Hello all!

I have improvements and news as we move closer to making this open to everyone.

1. There is a new "accept if improved" button. upon tapping, will let you choose one of four (so far) options. If a certain number of users select the same reason, it'll be sent to the user (detailed notes, example, etc.).

I considered "grammar", but if the grammar is a problem so that it is not understood, it should be removed. These messages will be automated, so it must be a suggestion obvious enough to the original author that they can fix it. If it's small grammar/spelling issues but still understandable, that's fine.

2. Because this has been added, and because I've been doing a ton of the markups in the last week, I have removed all "unacceptable" and "not sure" markers from notes that I have not yet checked. It's not many, but I'd like you to go through them again (the leftover ones) and take advantage of the new "improve" option.

3. I did run some stats on the notes where there a)was a simple consensus from you all and b)I independently rated them.

For "acceptable", there was an over 90% overlap between what you all and what I rated, so I think those will be safest to add without an additional check from me. This is great news!

For the "unacceptable", there the agreement was much, much lower. I think it'll help to reanalyze this half of the data once we run through it more with the new features.


11
4 months ago
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WildAtelier
Level: 918

For the too specific/too vague clause,

if there is something that may be useful for a group of people that know what it is, does that count as being specific and therefore unacceptable? (ex, name of a character from some game/manga/show, name of a bird that is seen on the west coast of North America). Some of the examples do seem like they would really be helpful for people that recognize that name/animal/etc, but completely unhelpful for people that don't.

It seems like it would be a shame for the mnemonic to be deleted altogether, especially if it is from a show that is well known? Would it be possible to either have an "if improved" option to include a reference (name of the show/book/etc) or a short explanation (towhee; sparrow-like bird common to North America). At least that way, people have the option to go see the movie/show/book or learn some new interesting fact and maybe decide they like the mnemonic after all?

Or if this is all just too much work for the average user, and the goal is to just have mnemonics that is useful for everyone, if we could have an "if improved" option to tell them to change it to a private mnemonic rather than just having it deleted altogether? Since it may still be a well thought out and useful mnemonic for the person who made it?

1
3 months ago
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マイコー
Level: 291

So, for something like an anime character, if they say "This is like CHARACTER from anime ANIM}ENAME", I think that's totally ok.

However, if they reference something from a specific set of media without saying where it's from, then I'd feel that is too vague. It may be super obvious to them, and useful to other learners, but not if it's too vague.

And just to clarify - if a mnemonic is ultimately marked not acceptable for any reason (outside of, I guess, something truly awful, which has never happened), then it is NOT deleted - just marked private. Private usage notes are considered a scratch pad for the user, and they are free to put in there what they want.

8
3 months ago
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Tealtime
Level: 49

Hi, a bit late to this post, but I have two questions/suggestions, which I don't think(?) have been addressed yet:

1.) Would/should mnemonics be unacceptable if it doesn't add anything new to the list of already added mnemonics? Maybe that could be another option for "Accept if improved" category. Also adding a direct link to the dictionary for the word being judged in the fire-hose widget would be helpful QOL for volunteers to judge in this category.

2.) Piggy-backing on this:

So, for something like an anime character, if they say "This is like CHARACTER from anime ANIM}ENAME", I think that's totally ok.

What happens if a media-based mnemonic houses a potential spoiler for said media? Should that be an acceptable mnemonic, even if reading it might be a landmine for someone who might be invested in the plot of the referenced media? For instance I had one for (hito) that referenced a specific character and their abilities introduced a bit into the Jujutsu Kaisen series (based on one of the antagonist's names), and it *really* helped me remember it because it was such a perfect fit, but I was afraid someone would find that to be a spoiler so I ultimately left it private. (I also determined it was an incredibly widely used word so a mnemonic for it would be low-value to begin with)

Forgive me if this has already been addressed, these are just my thoughts after trying out the fire-hose widget

kao_drink.png
0
15 hours ago
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Level: 634

Hi, a bit late to this post, but I have two questions/suggestions, which I don't think(?) have been addressed yet:

1.) Would/should mnemonics be unacceptable if it doesn't add anything new to the list of already added mnemonics? Maybe that could be another option for "Accept if improved" category. Also adding a direct link to the dictionary for the word being judged in the fire-hose widget would be helpful QOL for volunteers to judge in this category.

2.) Piggy-backing on this:

So, for something like an anime character, if they say "This is like CHARACTER from anime ANIM}ENAME", I think that's totally ok.

What happens if a media-based mnemonic houses a potential spoiler for said media? Should that be an acceptable mnemonic, even if reading it might be a landmine for someone who might be invested in the plot of the referenced media? For instance I had one for (hito) that referenced a specific character and their abilities introduced a bit into the Jujutsu Kaisen series (based on one of the antagonist's names), and it *really* helped me remember it because it was such a perfect fit, but I was afraid someone would find that to be a spoiler so I ultimately left it private. (I also determined it was an incredibly widely used word so a mnemonic for it would be low-value to begin with)

Forgive me if this has already been addressed, these are just my thoughts after trying out the fire-hose widget

kao_drink.png

Honestly, I would put a disclaimer like this:

"Jujutsu Kaisen spoilers

-

-

(Spoilers)"

This gives people enough time to register the possibility of being spoiled before they read the content. However, this could be annoying for users who want to scan mnemonics quickly.

1
15 hours ago
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Tealtime
Level: 49

Ooh! Good point. I commonly use Discord's ||spoiler|| markdown syntax to mark spoilers now that I think of it, which could be useful for this (that would be worthy of a separate post though)

0
15 hours ago
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