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Forums - Am I hindering myself by studying vocab without kanji?

Top > 日本語を勉強しましょう / Let's study Japanese! > Anything About Japanese



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Reduviidae
Level: 57

Right now I'm using the quiz settings which have most vocab words written in just kana without kanji. That's been working well, until recently, where I'm finding myself struggling a lot with similar words, especially when mixed with verb conjugations—many of which I haven't learned yet. Words like 書く, 買う, 貸す, 帰る, etc, where the stems are very similar, resulting in cases where I might see a word starting with か, but not know the conjugation rules enough to trace back to the dictionary form.

This is where I'm unsure about the best way to study though. I know that enabling kanji would help a lot, since it would help with recognition and differentiation, plus it would move me toward being able to read the kanji faster, too. However, my fear with enabling them is that it would only help me learn to differentiate when reading the words. The other half of learning the language is that I would still need to be able to differentiate while listening, where kanji wouldn't be available to help me. My thinking is that if I keep kanji disabled, then my reading and listening would both be on the same level, since I'd have the same amount of information for trying to identify words regardless of whether I was reading or listening. These two sides have left me confused about whether or not it would be a good idea for me to include kanji in basic vocab lessons.

Has anyone else struggled with a decision like this? Or would anyone have any experience about whether you did or didn't learn vocab with kanji and whether you think it helped or hurt your progress?


Note: if it matters, at the moment I'm not studying kanji in Renshuu, as I'm using WaniKani for that, so I haven't made any kanji progress here.

1
6 days ago
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・にゃー
Level: 176

Listening and reading are already two separate skills. It doesn't matter whether you study vocab with hiragana or kanji, your listening abilities will be the same either way. The only way to get really good at listening is to listen. Vocab study helps, but only so much. If you pay for pro, I think there's listening exercises. Otherwise, there's plenty of podcasts for beginners.


With that said, enable kanji. It'll only benefit you. You won't be able to read if you study kanji purely in isolation. It'll take years to relearn all your vocab with kanji if you don't start now.

2
6 days ago
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むじな
Level: 732

Of the exact same opinion as ・にゃー here. Just want to add that practicing with kanji in your vocab needn't get in the way of your... I wouldn't say listening comprehension (since, as mentioned, that depends on actually listening), but let's call it recognition of the sounds that make up a word.

What helps me is: don't tap the answer immediately, even if you've identified it, but take a moment to repeat the word in your head. "す, I know that, it's 'to abbreviate, to leave out', and it's.. (voice in my head supplies) りゃくす."

Not to mention there is that type of question which will ask you if す is りょうち、りゃくす、りゃくる or ひょうち.

1
6 days ago
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Nickname128
Level: 561

You hinder yourself a lot, especially long-term if you keep kanjis disabled.

Listening plays no part in this.

You always study vocab with kanjis enabled, everything else is just slowing you down tremendously long-term.

4
6 days ago
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Ashens
Level: 61

Am big fan of listening mode in schedule settings so I get both!

Also you mentioned wanikani, I think it does good job drilling on kanji readings so you should enable "auto-play on correct answer" and predict how it sounds from kanji reading

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5 days ago
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Mrs_Diss
Level: 408

i think you’re probably not doing yourself any favors. japanese texts written entirely in kana are borderline illegible. the kanji don’t just function as more complicated letters, they also tell you how the sentence is structured (where words start and end etc). so recognizing the words by kanji is essential to reading.

i like how renshuu does a kind of middle path (at least the way i’ve got it set up): vocab with kanji which i don’t know gets furigana (and sometimes just kana, which i like less). then as soon as i learn a kanji, those furigana disappear. on the other hand, when i learn a kanji, it immediately starts quizzing on all the readings which i already have vocab for. and if i learn a new reading (from a new word), it adds that to the kanji quizzes.

this is particularly useful for schedules i make with words i encounter while reading.

but unless you don’t intend to read any japanese, kanji are kind of essential..

2
5 days ago
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Icepick87
Level: 613
You only hinder yourself if you don't know kanji. It's fine knowing the pronunciation of words without kanji, but it isn't everything. That's just only telling you the spelling.

Kanji makes all the difference between words that have the same spelling, but multiple meanings. So, if you're learning a word, you should try learning the kanji used for that word.
0
5 days ago
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Shamugan
Level: 747

First, there are no "best way to study". Only pros and cons.

Second, up to you. Both are viable. IF you do additionnal things and don't follow renshuu basic schedules (because those are oriented towards the JLPT, which is also oriented towards reading).


Native Japaneses (as well as polyglot most of the time and some online learners) learn without kanji first. Rather than learning words, grammar, or kanji, they learn patterns first. And later, they learn grammar, which allow them to understand how they speak, and kanji, which allow them to differentiate written words. That last part is important because people often think spoken japanese and written japanese are the same but that's not the case... at all. There are even expressions which are often used by native for that: (はなしことば)​ and (かきことば)​. And the way they learn Japanese reflect that too.

For example, あし is often translated by foot or leg. Well, in spoken japanese and for kids, it means neither. It's closer to limb. Basically, it was a (やまとことば)​, a word of japanese origin and when kanji arrived, it got differenciated (with and ). But in spoken japanese, it didn't change. Furthermore, (foot) is learn around 7 years old but (leg) is not learn until 13 years old. So during that period, あし is still just limb.

It's just one example but there are a lot of other case like that. As well as other things that happened when you don't focus on kanji first and learn in a native or polyglot way. One of the most important factor is: it force you to rely on context.
Instead of learning る for example, you need to learn things like しゃしんをとる (take a picture) to differentiate the different とる (取る、#る、#る, 採る) without kanji. Basically, compared to most foreign learner, japanese kids have an easier time because they don't differentiate words like that. And later when they finally learn kanji, they just "realized" that they were different words. And they do take their time compared to foreigner: 80 kanji in the first year and "only" a 1000 kanji after 6 years. Most foreign learner rush the kanji instead and get confused early on by those homophones. Like it slow them down. But once they are past a certain threshold, it makes learning new words easier. But only after that threshold.

And it's the same for conjugation. Context and pattern help you to distinguish and remember those kind of things.
Basically, natives japanese and polyglot tend to learn only a small amount of things and "use" that small amount of things to learn basic pattern (which is different from grammar) and develop their ability to deduce meaning from context rather than words directly.

There are a lot of others things that I'm not talking about but to sum up, yeah, it's possible and viable to not learn kanji in the beginning. Especially if your goal is to progress evenly on both your reading and listening ability.

But wether you can do to renshuu with renshuu is another problem. Renshuu basic schedules are oriented towards reading and the JLPT. So, if you really want to use those schedules, I wouldn't recommend you to turn off the kanji. Because there are almost necessary.

Otherwise, just study the kaishi 1.5K words AND sentence schedules. And go practice with natives as soon as you learn a new set of sentences. There are a lot natives online to practice with for free and they also can't to practice their english once you're struggle to produce to some sentences. Later, just do the same for beginners.
Once you're done with the first thousand words, start to learn kanji and grammar. It will be a lot more easier to study.

If you can do that, it will be viable. Otherwise, it won't. Because you will lack that input that natives naturally have and which allow them to learn that way. Also, past 1000 or 2000 words, not learning kanji will definitly start to hinder you.

But until then? Well, that's just how natives learn. And polyglot. And polyglot usually learn way faster than most learners.

At the same time, it's also a matter of personality. If you can go to language exchange community (on discord or VRChat for example) to meet and talk to natives, it will work. But not everyone can do that.

Honnestly, both strategy/way to learn are the same for me. People that ignore kanji and go straight to interact with natives usually get good speaking and listening early on (but are really bad at reading/writing... As well as grammar). People that don't ignore kanji usually get good at reading/writing sooner (but are really bad at listening/listening even after a few years). After a few years, when they finally encounter a real wall or plateau, they finally start to work on their weaknesses.

Btw, I'm the type that want to get good at both at the same time. The current result is that I'm bad at both compared to both extreme. But I'm also better than both when it comes to their respective weaknesses. And I'm fine with that. I sometimes regret that I did not study in more "polyglot way" because I have more fun conversation with some japanese friend. I don't regret it when I saw those people struggle because they don't enought kanji. I sometimes not having rushed the kanji (I'm around 1200 after 4 years). I don't regret it when I was those people struggle with basic conversation while I can enjoy casual japanese full of slang. At the same time, don't talk to me about daily life things or small talk. Don't ask to read too except for the things I like or read (like japanese grammar for native). I will start to read once I reach Japanese high school level because it's either too boring or inefficient imo (but some people do it and there are to do it if they are stubborn enough).

Anyway, whatever you choose, it's the same in the end. And most people end up correcting their weaknesses around 5 years in. So up to you.

Oh and another fun fact. Renshuu recently uptated the kanji database with a native online dictionary (called jitenon). Along with dictionary came the wonderful JP definition! Most of the time... It's full of hiragana words. To define kanji, Japaneses use... hiragana words. Ironically.

TLDR: Natives and polyglot don't focus on kanji first. They develop a foundation by speaking and listening while remembering pattern and understanding meaning through context. After that they focus on kanji and grammar. It's not "better", just a different way to study with pros and cons. But if you rely only on renshuu and use renshuu basic schedules, it won't work because you lacking the most important part: Native input and conversation practice (which is easily doable with internet nowadays). So up to you, but if you want do it, do it properly. Otherwise, follow the advises of the community. Because they are good at studying the way they do and at using renshuu.



2
5 days ago
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Level: 268

- First of all, what I do recommend for you, since you are concerned about listening/pronunciation, is to turn on the audio for answers in your vocab schedules, that way you’ll learn pronunciation of words, whether they are written in kanji or kana.

- But also if I were you, I’d start gradually integrating kanji in my learning on renshuu. You can start with an N5 kanji schedule. Of course, it’s your choice, but kanji is a serious chunk of Japanese you can’t really do without if you want to learn the language. And in my personal opinion, the longer you wait to start studying kanji, the more you prolong your Japanese studies overall, and the longer you won’t be able to properly read actual texts, making your further learning even harder.

But again, all of it is my personal opinion.

0
5 days ago
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